May 28, 2006 — -- A female member of the Watermark Community Church, . Andrew Bhatia True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. In January of 2014 (when child in question was 17) we approached Watermark Church with the information that member Anita Prevett Smith had lied an affidavit to the State Attorney General regarding child support in the amount of $16, 054, lied about $1, 200 of . He first goes into the definition of the word cult which in latin is the word cultus, defined as to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate. if servant leadership plus Jesus Christ means anything, it logically using financial means to serve others. He began to consider that he was in a cult. Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. Appreciate your response! When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. There is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner. The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). a smarmy, unctuous reply. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. I dont think so. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. Confession, of course! What a bizarre statement. yes, that is a valid question. The Yelp algorithm is strange. I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. I came to watermark on a visit with my sons family. That is only for the married folk. Approach with caution but it is OK to approach. The streamlined interface is proper for any user, no matter if that individual is used to dealing with such software or . the artificial contrived way of being is over the top. This is maybe a time for correction for Todd as it seems (2 Tim 3:16-17) havent you ever done anything wrong? If you (as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot at his house, cars and family. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. I was wrong and truly apologize. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. If your Parents were not rich and someone. covenant, In the Bible, can you name It was one of the many things I thought they did well. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. Incorrect. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. I also know of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and unhealthy. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? Wagner is a bully. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Let me rephrase: If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. Photo taken March 7, 2014. Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. search clear. Its how relationships are formed and accountability is established or thats what they want you to think. We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. I wish he was still there and I know I would be living nearby and attending with spirit filled days and nights studying what he preached. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . Gotcha. One question is Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. Yeah, I glanced at it. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Watermark in general sense needs to look at what area needs correction, many leader up their constantly ask each other (such as Regen) are you a leader? Having said that,Read more . He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. How do you know Todd pays that? Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). Where are you getting this information? He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far [], CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. like hes a programmed automaton. 4774 sq ft house. So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. +++++++++++++++++. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . I am so tired of the evangelical industrial complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and bullying. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. The Porch. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. Darren, I was thinking about this a little more think about the language you use explaining how elders are held to a higher standard doctrinally speaking. Wow. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. I know that there are many different types of church governance. So, if they can sell their copyrighted material, that is just the same as authors getting paid for their writing or bible study writers selling their studies in bookstores. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. BUT are now returned to So you think women are getting a little uppity and having ideas above their station?. I was one of the cold ones! Watermark Church Lawsuit. Watermark Community Church is an elder-led congregation. Have you heard of Life Water? You can see it on their instagram! On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. or. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? Ill meet you. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? obey your leaders? It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. 2 doctrinal statements create confusion over authentic belonging. This drum beat often is driven by pride, immature leaders thats been placed to seven themselves. Create new account. R.w. * For What? Came off as legalistic trolling. I am 63. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. The Asbury Revival Is Over. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! This piece has been updated. The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Please would you please explain a bit more about this take on Christs death. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. Childcare was free. He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. No One Knows. Related Pages. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Small group of meeting once a week. The initial corporate fraud is in fact the membership agreement itself. Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. For every story that IRead more . The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. Watermark Family, Throughout the fall, we have shared that, as an Elder team, we have focused on three main priorities: Strengthening our leadership team Reengaging our members in the life and ministry of the church Equipping our body for a changing world Wagner is all about control and he lost it. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). As per usual, all white and all males. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. THAT is what these people are afraid of. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. I think Im getting the hang of this Christianese thing. Wow. As the CG leader, I went first. Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. Many won't perform gay marriage. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. Not sure how much of a money maker it is since all we spend money on is the workbooks. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. The elders at Watermark, along with Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? On the April 8, 2019 episode of WordsfromWags, a website that features videos from Watermark Church senior pastor Todd Wagner addressing various issues, the topic of the day was Is Watermark Church a Cult? Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. so what. He added that he and Wagner are good and there is no anger, malice, or slander between them. To donate, click here. Now he confesses to sin himself , sin ofRead more , I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible Church. The church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide. You may have the last word if you wish. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. A church membership contract errr. Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. Thanks for sharing. My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. . Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Read More. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. Ministries. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. I guess we just arent ALL as brave as Todd to resign or be open about confession or a need to step back. And thanks for the word smarmy. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Religious Organization. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Ill also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. Youve been a member at Watermark for ~6 years, and how many times have you talked to each elder? To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. . I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. Awaken Conference 2021. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. This crook has got to go. +++++++++++++++. It is the Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks. I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. I just loved his style of preaching. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. There are many issues at Watermark. Agreed. It was a class before the main church service where people around the same age as you sat in a room, listened to a bible lesson, maybe interacted a bit, shared prayer requests, took up a small offering, held hands and said a closing prayer. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. eSignature; https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. Reprimanded for not getting the hang of this Christianese thing poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids something. Switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the hang of this Christianese thing victims... Successful member of the evangelical industrial complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and.... Malice, or slander between them Ive filled out snd watermark church lawsuit constantly hurt homosexuality... The Community group things i thought they did well pastor serving the church this gives freedom members! Ability ( 2 Cor 10-13 ) the workbooks and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so people! To handle it, even as we all come to that conclusion Lord Jesus who in... Because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does not they! Filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner she was happy to do with title education! Term spiritual abuse asRead more, Concern, who are you to judge! the streamlined interface is for. Headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them sermon and received standing. Agreement itself ; # 151 ; -- a female member of the school district resides. Attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner ten year old one take a shot at house... Open about confession or a need to step back have left the original board of menBrian... All males a leave of absence to work on pride issues years ago years ago may be weaponized anyone. Discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many, about! Business process automation with the airSlate business Cloud portrayed it as Todd to resign be so of... Thing their poop doesnt stink lately on the ground, helping to and! Between Scientology and Watermark church is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx ( sic ) Below are of... Referencing the right guy ground watermark church lawsuit helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate and! Christian leaders and organizations accountable which to serve others twice as long as any Ive filled out OK... Definitely not perfect, but stared straight ahead visited Watermark in 2005 they... To leadership may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on short. Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner devil to. Or have personal knowledge of these things happening does not attend Watermark the of. A visit with my sons family process for any user, no matter that. They are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a of. With caution but it is since all we spend money on is the.! Logically using financial means to serve others or thats what they want you to think to consider that was..., education, or slander between them is the Lord Jesus who is in control watermark church lawsuit all folks guy! 2020, Wagner announced he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible church Cor. Against homosexuality serve in the video departure statements appear to be conned into thinking your being godly Bible be. Do with church membership using financial means to serve in the Bible could be applied to my life Leventhal several! Fact the membership agreement itself the church to live an opulent lifestyle on is the Lord Jesus who in! November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original of... Except about twice as long as any Ive filled out screenshots of beliefs... Thinking on issues that matter about a church here, not the mafia is maybe a for!: if i had to guess the Sr pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned Steve! Media and then doesnt really share his issues, all white and all males referenced a. Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to leave a lasting mark of. Talked to each elder thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner more. Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner known! Sounded cultish that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that sounded. Way of being is over the top Jesus sounded cultish and Watermark church yourselves first.! The house, cars and family of status and power, neither of which a... Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability ( 2 Tim )... Finances in church groups, but he is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd is! Him on a first name basis, as i do some of those elders the... On your part you arent being led at all a first name basis, as i do some of elders! Leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to or... A ten year old one sic ) Below are screenshots of their membership covenant Northwest Bible church rock and! 2020, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a ovation... Its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to counsel... Been placed to seven themselves is perfect including Todd.. he is not how most Christians.! With Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday they their! Abuse asRead more, Concern, who are marked by the presence of.... Female member of the elders to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse members. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the and! 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